Attendees: Adjunct Professor Jim Taggart OAM, George Sahyoun, Steve Phillips, Chris Warhurst, Karen Grega, Michael Walls, Stacey Fishwick, Ian Knowd, Bill McNamara and Nathan Burbridge.
Introductions
Dr Jim Taggart OAM: Well, good morning, ladies and gentleman. There’s a variety of different people here who play a strategic role in tourism in the region and today is about discussing how as individual organisations we look at regional tourism. Ok so let’s start with introductions.
Michael Walls: My name is Michael Walls and I’m the publisher of Western Sydney Business Access. We’re a business newspaper that focuses on and covers Western Sydney, the GWS region. We started the Round Tables last month and I must say I am extremely impressed with calibre of people here today.
Ian Knowd: My name is Ian Knowd. My real job is with the University of Western Sydney where I teach in the Tourism Management program. I’m also a Board member of Hills, Hawkesbury & Riverlands Tourism, which is an industry group that started up in 2008. I’ve been the past Chair current Treasurer, of Hawkesbury Harvest.
Steve Phillips: I’m Steve Phillips, general manager, Jani-King. Essentially, we’re a commercial cleaning franchise group. We’ve got in excess of 950 franchisees spanning two countries. We’ve been going 20 years and I’ve been with the company 13 of them.
Bill McNamara: I’m Bill McNamara, Chairman of the McNamara Group. When it comes to tourism, well, we run the Del Rio Resort on the Hawkesbury River, which is 450 acres and we’ve got the big accommodation, a lot of families, and we’ve been very successful recently.
Stacey Fishwick: I’m Stacey Fishwick from Panthers. I head up the corporate real estate side of the business. We have, I guess, a large meeting and events business, but the reality is, it’s probably only running a low occupancy, so we’ve got lots of potential, and I’m very interested in this conversation today.
Chris Warhurst: Good morning everyone, I’m Chris Warhurst from Village Roadshow.
George Sahyoun: George Sahyoun, Karima Group. It’s a family-based business based out of Parramatta. We employ roughly about 1,000 people in the hospitality industry, in particular. Function centres, the Waterview Convention Centre at Bicentennial Park. We are former owners of Ribs and Rumps and The Meat & Wine Co and also a variety of cafes and various other related hospitality areas. I’m a strong believer in the Greater West. Hospitality is one of the things that underpins the tourism sector, because I think we need that to develop people looking at the Greater West as a destination, and I’m very happy to participate.
Karen Grega: Karen Grega. I’m the CEO of Sydney Olympic Park Business Association. I represent about 75 businesses in the Park, everything from the ANZ Stadiums, the Allphones Arena, Commonwealth Bank, with 5,000 staff, through to the retailers and some of the not-for-profit sporting organisations. My other connnections with the west is I sit on the advisory committee for Venues NSW with Jim, and I’m also on the Women in Sport Advisory Group for Casula Powerhouse Arts Centre.
Nathan Burbridge: Good morning, everybody. Nathan Burbridge from Blacktown City Council. I am the Economic Development Strategist. Amongst many things, one of my main roles is to promote the city as a place to invest. So, when I look at Blacktown, we’re home to the Sydney Motorsports Parkland and Sydney Dragway, Blacktown International Sportspark, soon to be Wet‘n’Wild, and Featherdale Wildlife Park. We have some major facilities that can attract domestic and international markets.
Regional tourism body
Dr Jim Taggart OAM: Well, let’s get in to today. I’m very excited. Can we start by getting some views about the the current tourism situation looks like in our region?
Michael Walls: I’m just wondering, with all of the people around this table here, is it feasible to have a body in Western Sydney, like we have various bodies to represent business, like the Western Sydney Business Connection and so forth. Is it possible to have a Western Sydney Tourist Foundation, or group, that monitors all of this? Is that feasible? Not being a tourist operator in the sense coming from a media background, I was wondering it that would be possible?
Ian Knowd: Can I just tell you what’s actually happening, if you don’t mind? Hills, Hawkesbury and Riverlands Tourism formed in 2008 because the tourism thing kind of collapsed in the northwest sector, after some shenanigans in the Hawkesbury. We formed an industry group there. And the current plan is to form this Greater Sydney group. At the moment, our focus is on the northwest, because that’s where we started, but we realise that Greater Sydney is where it has to go.
Chris Warhurst: From my mind and our experience – not only with the theme parks in Queensland, but we also used to own the Sydney Aquarium, we used to own the Sydney Tower and Sydney Wildlife World, as well as the Manly Aquarium, so we’ve been in the tourism space for about 27 years – and one of the things that we often find is there is a defined group of people that are sharing the same return on investment strategies. So, I guess the first thing would be Western Sydney as a tourism destination isn’t a defined brand, because there isn’t a defined experience. I don’t think there’s necessarily a defined brand, or a defined experience. There also is, to be frank, I think far too many tourism bodies already. and they are struggling for a raft of funding, and also to get a share of voice. So I think the defined brand, defined experience, a defined strategy on what the available market is and what is the likely market to come to Western Sydney because of those brands and those experiences? And then it has to be, if there’s a collaborative agreement with stakeholders, such as investment folks and commerce groups of people. There has to be, I think, an agreement on a return on investment. But, ultimately, I think it just comes down to defined brand, defined experiences, and a defined marketing strategy of what is actually the market available to come in, because, yes, there’s 7.9 million overnight visitors, cumulative, per year in Sydney, but, ultimately, you know, we’re talking about 68,000 domestic visitors go to the Blue Mountains. I’m not entirely sure that’s a good share of market.
Karen Grega: It’s just ambiguous. I mean, having lived overseas, and then you come back to Australia, and when you’re overseas, you know, the perception is Neighbours, its beaches. People come to Australia because they want to go to beaches. Obviously, Western Sydney is not about going to beaches, and that’s the international perception; that’s why you come to Australia, because you want sunshine, you want to lie on the beach, you know, you want to do all of that sort of stuff. But, I think the ambiguity of Western Sydney … what’s Western Sydney, if you’re putting your hat on as an international tourist? You can go to Circular Quay, The Rocks, you can go to Darling Harbour; there’s little mini-precincts within that which have very defined experiences. But Western Sydney doesn’t have that, for my mind. It’s kind of just this blanket name, but it doesn’t really say anything about what the experiences are.
Steve Phillips: It’s interesting to read the stats, too. If you look at whom – because it’s NSW as a whole, and you can’t pick up stats on Western Sydney, of course – if you look at those international visitors that come in, the majority of them don’t leave the city. They pretty much go in there, stay, that’s it.
George Sahyoun: I think there are two defined markets: the international tourism issue and they are the people that jump on a bus, stop at Sydney Olympic Park for coffee, then go out to the wildlife park, and then end up the Blue Mountains, and then come back. Within 12 hours, they’ve seen Sydney at that point. The reality of it is, there’s a domestic marketplace. From a businessman’s point of view, that would be where I’d be putting my money. The reality of it is there are some very substantial stops – and they’re obviously going to be key ones – but, domestically, we’ve got a marketplace that’s quite lucrative. We’ve got a lot of attractions. And, ultimately, we need to be able to tap into that resource.
Chris Warhurst: I think that the point I was making before – maybe ineloquently – is that defining the market in the first instance, the international, the overnight tourism into Sydney, year to date, is 7.6 million, well, 7.9 million. So, there’s clearly a larger market to be had.
Steve Phillips: If you read the stats – I’m a numbers freak – but if you read the stats, those visitors that come to Sydney from interstate or just within the state, 70% of them use their own vehicles. So that creates another problem. And I think if we get that clarity, we actually have a totally different strategy, the position it different.
George Sahyoun: I think it’s a big ask, from an international perspective, to assume that people are going to take this leap of faith and come out to the Greater West. I think there’s two defined markets: the international tourism issue, and they are the people that jump on a bus, stop at Sydney Olympic Park for coffee, then go out to the wildlife park, and then end up the Blue Mountains, and then come back. For Greater Sydney that, from a businessman’s point of view, that would be where I’d be putting my money. The reality of it is there are some very substantial stops – and they’re obviously going to be key ones – but, domestically, we’ve got a marketplace that’s quite lucrative. We’ve got a lot of attractions. And, ultimately, we need to be able to tap into that resource. Because for us to try and fight the bigger picture, I think we’re fighting a losing battle.
Chris Warhurst: The question is, what are the major issues confronting tourism, then it clearly would be about defining the market. If someone wanted to go to Wet ‘n’ Wild Sydney, there’s no bus route. There is no public transport. We’re actually looking to fund that ourselves and produce one. But, ultimately if we’re looking at Greater Western Sydney – I’m not entirely sure that all the public pathways from the CBD are there to get out to Greater Western Sydney
Karen Grega: You know, you can jump on a ferry, you could go up the Parramatta River, and you could exit at different points. And I just think, you know, families and everyone’s very price conscious at the moment, but I guess it’s almost like trying to develop packages to say, “If you’ve got this ticket, where can you go because of the limitations with public transport?”
Michael Walls: Chris, can I just ask what drove your company’s decision to do the theme park where you have?
Chris Warhurst: One of the answers is very easy. The site was made available. That was the only site that was zoned for theme park use in Sydney. So that was a fairly easy decision. The other reason is we love this space. We think it’s a great location for the market that we want to attract.
Michael Walls: That’s your core market?
Chris Warhurst: The core market being with the 2.1 million people that live in the Greater Western Sydney area. From a tourism perspective, I think that if we went around the room, there’d be 11 responses as to what the experience may be in tourism. In respect to the demography, I think that there’s always a discussion about what the experience, or what the social aspect, is But from a clear perspective, we’re expecting 10 to 15% of our market to be international and interstate tourism.
Karen Grega: People come to Sydney Olympic Park because they know the Olympics were there, you know? that’s their first perception of why they’re going there. But why do people come to Parramatta? Why do people go to Blacktown? They don’t really know.
Nathan Burbridge: Well, one of interesting things that supports what you’re saying, Chris, is that of the 630,000 annual visitations to Blacktown a high percentage of that is for people visiting family and friends. So, there seems to be a signal there that when somebody is visiting, they are going to be looking for local experiences.
Defining regional tourism
Dr Jim Taggart OAM: So, let me ask you this, then, listening to the conversation, is tourism in Western Sydney disjointed? Is that a major issue?
Karen Grega: Yes.
Chris Warhurst: I just don’t think it’s defined.
Dr Jim Taggart OAM: I’m going to be a bit of a devil’s advocate, why are people then – in this fragmentation, this dislocation – investing in Western Sydney? What are they seeing?
Chris Warhurst: A core market, a critical mass.
George Sahyoun: Critical mass, that’s all.
Bill McNamara: It’s a growing market, growing faster every day.
Chris Warhurst: We’ve got one in nine Australians. So, if you put ten people in a room one of them lives in Greater Western Sydney.
Dr Jim Taggart OAM: I’m going to jump around with a couple of the questions. Can I just ask you, from your experiences who do you think is doing what well, whether it’s in Australia or overseas, and the reasons why.
Bill McNamara: Well, Wet ‘n’ Wild must be doing something right.
Steve Phillips: Tourism Victoria, though, they’ve got more offices overseas, if you look at the ratio of representation. I know we’re talking about domestic markets, but what Melbourne’s done, they’ve got more – or Victoria’s done – they’ve got more presence overseas, so they’re driving a lot more people into these the developments, like, down in South Wharf with the new Hilton and the DFOs and that.
Bill McNamara: Well, my experience with tourism is I tried to cooperate with Sydney Tourism but it’s very hard to get people to work together in NSW. They do it on the Gold Coast, they do it in Melbourne, and it’s a delight to go to New Zealand; they cooperate with each other. Here, they don’t cooperate like they should. Now, with the overseas visitors … so they come out of Sydney, what is there to see – other than the Blue Mountains – which an overseas visitor would want to see? I think if you’re good enough they’ll find you. And our little operation, compared with some of you guys here, my best salesmen are the kids. You look after the kids, they bring the parents back. The parents haven’t got much say in it, really. But when they get there, if they’re happy – they’re not worrying the parents, they’re not bored – the parents are happy. That’s what I think. That’s our philosophy. And it’s been very, very successful. And – oh, several years ago now – I thought, well, I’ve tried this sort of thing, of cooperating, but I made my mind up to paddle my own canoe, because that’s what I call it. And I’ve done it, and it’s worked. So, there’s got to be some body – someone strong enough – that can pull everybody together. It only takes one man, sometimes, to pull everybody together where they will cooperate. They haven’t got to like each other – they can be competitive with each other – but they’ve got to cooperate with each other. You’ve got to cooperate. It’s just, you know, you’ve got to promote him, and he’s got to promote you, and so on. And I think that NSW would go a heck of a lot better if they did that.
Steve Phillips: Tourism NSW for example, if you look at the broader sense, is actually more a reporting body, rather than autonomy that can actually make decisions and influence local government. So, you’ve got all of these other things that pop up, as far as representation of micro regions.
Ian Knowd: It does have the autonomy to make a decision to lump everything in Sydney together, which is what they’ve done.
Bill McNamara: But, basically, our Premier, he is the Minister for Western Sydney, which I think is wrong. He hasn’t got the time. He can’t be interested. He can’t have that many jobs. He can’t have that many hats on. Ray Williams is his Secretary. Why isn’t Ray Williams the Minister for Western Sydney, a man that’s very interested, lives in Western Sydney, got a bit of go about him. He should be the one that pushes it, and we might have a bit better chance.
What would do if you were Minister for Western Sydney?
Dr Jim Taggart OAM: If you were the Minister for Tourism, what would you do? It’s a really good question.
Nathan Burbridge: I find it very interesting what you said there, Steve, about Tourism Victoria, or the body, having presence internationally. And what that strikes me is their engagement is business development. Now, if you’re a commercial operator – whatever your business – you’ve got business development managers out there promoting, attracting, obtaining business. We don’t seem to do it as well in NSW, because we don’t seem to grapple with the concept of developing and promoting place. Part of that problem maybe comes back to the previous roundtable discussion, needing a clear vision for Western Sydney. Talkingwith Karen in the break we discussed the need to draw on a map, what are the destinations, what are the hubs in Western Sydney, where are we going so we are able to take that to places, whether it be domestic or international, and sell that to those with money, those that want to invest. We may be doing it, but if we are, it’s fragmented and it’s unclear. So, a body that is lead through business development is what I’d be looking for from any Minister.
Michael Walls: I wonder if you just said, okay, you just hypothetically set up GWS Tourism Inc., or whatever – you gave it a name – and you went around to all of the operators and said, “We want $10,000 from each of you. We’re going to market you, we’re going to develop a strategy, we’re going to get a proposal, we’re going do some TV advertising and promote the whole region”. Would that work?
Chris Warhurst: Oh, I think that’s the approach that is taken in most situations, ads, collaborative arrangements. And where it becomes undone – and I think as Bill’s quite rightly said – is that he’s done all of that; he’s collaborated … corroborated and collaborated, and then paddled his own canoe. And I think, particularly when you talk about funding for television commercials or other opportunities, that’s when it becomes very much the share of voice – pardon the pun in relation to that – but it’s become part of the share of voice. And if Stacey put in $10,000 and I put in $10,000, I’d be saying, “Well, why has Stacey got a larger logo than me?” And those sorts of things occur more often than not, and that’s when it doesn’t become cohesive any longer. And you end up finding that two or three larger players dwarf the seven other guys that have also put in – or people – who have put in $10,000 as well.
Karen Grega: And you’ve still got to know what you’re selling.
Chris Warhurst: Again, it comes down to share of voice. In Sydney, buying media in Sydney - we’re Australia’s most expensive media market. And, again, it depends … I think it comes back to the very first point of, if I was Minister … the question is, “If you’re the Minister …
Ian Knowd: We’re sitting here considering what a Premier or a Minister might do, which is about recognising there’s a need and convening a space and time for people who have got the ideas and whatnot to come together to actually formulate a definitive strategy, in whatever form that is, that services all of the different needs. And I agree with you about the small business sector as a prime driver of, particularly the smaller scale, dispersed tourism, which is going to be important if we’re going to retain landscapes and not cover it in housing. You know, we need that kind of tourism here to provide a justification for keeping some of our rural landscapes in Western Sydney; otherwise it will disappear, because housing is a higher economic value.
Karen Grega: Everyone wants their pound of flesh. It’s a half-empty, half-full glass type of thing. Rather than say, “Well, look, let’s be encouraging”, it’s, like, “How can we get something, money out of this?” It’s a really terrible way of looking at it.
Stacey Fishwick: So one of the questions talks about incentives. I agree that, then, for small business, and for business, having those adjustments to help them survive is good. But I think, from a government point of view, the focus has to be back on infrastructure.
Bill McNamara: If you haven’t got access, you’ve got nothing.
Stacey Fishwick: That’s right. So, for me, it’s not about big incentives; it’s about getting the infrastructure right, and that’s both road and public transport.
Karen Grega: And it should be apolitical.
Bill McNamara: Clearing the way. You can’t expect the Minister to run your business for you. Or do your marketing for you. Butt he can clear the way. Now, one of the biggest problems we have is local government. I mean, I’ve dealt with local government all of my life. But, when it comes to tourism, I don’t know what it is, but they put a block up. And I’ve had a heck of a job with local government. And it takes so long, even for a thing that’s going to go through council. It takes so long. Six months is nothing to them. I’d like to see them try and run their own business.
Dr Jim Taggart OAM: Well, the points you’re raising – if I can just say – are really important. If we’re creating this animal, this Minister, they need to be aware of these things. That’s the whole purpose. They are really burning issues.
Karen Grega: I think it goes back to, yes, you know, putting these, you know, ten top facts about this area together and having everybody in every forum agree these are the key messages that we all have to be pushing, because we’re all going to have our own little micro issues, but if it’s six key points or something, everybody’s got to be on the same page of getting this message across.
Steve Phillips: Otherwise, everybody’s running off in their own direction.
Karen Grega: And everybody’s got a sphere of influence with a Minister or, you know, another Minister, and if everyone’s saying the same thing, it’s the old principle of, you know, you’ve got to hear it eight different times, or something, before, the old penny drops, type of thing.
Stacey Fishwick: And it’s also the key messages for the Premier. So you have a one-page key message – keep it simple – and this is what it is, Western Sydney.
Panthers development
Dr Jim Taggart OAM: What we’ll do is, one of the questions that we’ve raised was to have a look at what do you think is required for Western Sydney in terms of tourism? And I might just ask Stacey, would you be so kind just to give a quick précis of what you’re doing.
Stacey Fishwick: We’ve got a rezoning that’s only just been approved by council. It’s currently in with the State Government’s Department of Planning & Planning for gazettal, who knows how long that’s going to take. We’re hoping for gazettal by Christmas, if not early in the New Year. It gives us the ability to build approximately 350,000 square metres of mixed-use development. It’s a $750,000 to $850,000 million development over 10 plus years. The components include a brand outlet centre being 25,000 square metres of shopping, another hotel, and serviced apartments, residential …
Dr Jim Taggart OAM: Sorry, another hotel? What does that look like?
Stacey Fishwick: Sorry, a second hotel. So, at the moment we’ve got the Chifley. So we’ve got the ability to build another 250 rooms, if that’s what the market required. Short-term accommodation we know is a problem in Penrith. Along Mulgoa Road we have two options: we can do some high-density residential, but we also like the idea of doing a large floor plate business park, to compete with Norwest. It also brings in a different employment market. We also have a big component of seniors living. We can do up to 500 ILUs, independent living units. On our current plan we have 80 aged care beds. Then we also have three projects that we’re looking at for the next two years. One is, as I said, seniors living, our first stage of that, which is 135 ILUs and the 80-bed aged care. The DA will be going in within the next month for creating the Panthers NRL Academy, which is rugby league central for Western Sydney. Two sporting fields, plus administration, coaching, gym, completely focused around the NRL side, our juniors, and development of our squad. We have a relationship with our Bathurst Rugby League Club and our Port Macquarie Club. Bathurst is the home of Country Rugby League. So there’s a synergy there about developing the rugby league as a code, and really lifting the Panthers franchise, from a sporting point of view. The other component that we are working on is a funding submission for, what we’re calling the Western Sydney Community and Sports Centre, in round figures, 10,000 square metre indoor sports facility, timber floor, basketball, netball, indoor tennis, soccer, futsal, events, whatever you want to do within that. On the front of that we’re attaching a two-storey building – the ground floor has a gym, there’s a café, there’s a large foyer, which is a community space for schools, artwork, et cetera. Upstairs is an 800 square metre tenancy for sports science. We are hopefully next week announcing a MoU with UWS, and the intention is that they’ll become a sports medicine/sports science lab for their school, which is in Campbelltown. We also then have a component of wellbeing, or allied health, sports related, so chiro, physio, those types of offers. We also have a Scouts Hall that we’re proposing as a part of this. And we also have a MoU with PCYC to investigate building a new PCYC facility as a part of that master plan. The first stage of that is $30 million, and our intention is to ask the Federal Government next year for a contribution towards that. So, they’re our three projects.
Chris Warhurst: That’s just some tiny little things you’ve got going on.
Karen Grega: You need a new postcode, just for your developments.
Stacey Fishwick: That’s right – 68 hectares. So, we’ve already got ... the ski lakes have reopened, with wakeboarding and skiing. We have an approved DA for an indoor vertical wind tunnel, so skydiving, inside. Hopefully next month we’ll get the green light for that. We’ve got white water rafting up the road; not ours, but, a part of the collective offer. We have started, now, doing our own marketing, our pitch for Penrith is, “Penrith, the city of entertainment, sport and adventure”. We’ve spoken to a few smaller organisations about bushwalking, abseiling, canyoning, and trying to create, I guess, an adventure hub for Western Sydney.
Hawkesbury Tourism
Dr Jim Taggart OAM: Ian, why aren’t you talking to Bill? That’s what I’m saying. What’s happening out there?
Ian Knowd: Well, Bill knows what I’m talking about. The asset that’s there, in terms of the rural or agri tourism potential, but also the contribution that makes to the quality of life for Sydney as a global city. You know, the landscapes that are there, that need protecting and looking after, but putting more attractions within them, so that they can be activated, and get more people out into them. And to provide some kind of recognition of the role of those places in the metro strategy, that actually gives them proper valuing in the whole equation. That’s what we’re trying to achieve. That’s what we want to, out of that kind of dialogue with city planners, in terms of that sort of stuff. There are arguments that you would protect parts of the Hawkesbury simply because it’s where farming began in this nation. You know, it’s the Macquarie link; it’s that sort of stuff. But that, on its own, isn’t a good enough justification. But, quality of life dimensions, and the fact that all the communities out there all say that the things that’s most important to them is their rural amenity that the place has. And as a contribution to a quality city on the globe, how do you value those things? I know that we talked about economic value in terms of the numbers that we could put on the table straight away, but there are also some values. You know, there’s the Hawkesbury Nepean River system itself. What role does that play as a tourism asset, a foundation for experiences? Even if you’re just driving over it, on one of those bridges, you know, you’re looking left and right, you’re seeing this amazing thing. And if it’s good and clear and looked after, then the community themselves will want to keep it going.
Dr Jim Taggart OAM: I agree with you. Is there something in place, though, for that, that’s identifiable?
Ian Knowd: It’s starting. Under the Metro Strategy has what they call an Agricultural Reference Group, that we’re part of that we talk to, in terms of establishing some ground rules about how you’re going to either retain or increase the opportunities around agriculture in the Sydney basin. And with, you know, food miles and climate change, and all of those sorts of things, coming into the equation for business viability, then intensive forms of agriculture, but also the sorts of things that the Farmgate Trail does, which is artisanal agriculture, the tourist attraction side of things, start to become more important in terms of contributing to the overall Sydney picture.
Michael Walls: Can I ask is it actually possible?
Ian Knowd: What?
Michael Walls: To bring together these agricultural types of interests in an organisational structure with common purpose?
Ian Knowd: It’s difficult. The Farmgate Trail is a bundling of things together. We still have issues with farmers not being as cooperative as they need to be. They see themselves as rowing their own canoe. I mean, it’s a good thing, but it’s also a negative when it comes to cooperative, collaborative working on a problem. And we’ve got a problem. We didn’t have a problem 40 years ago. We’ve got a problem now, so we need to have some changes in attitudes to be able to move that forward. But, you’re right, it is difficult. The ones that engage with it properly, and move in that direction, they turn themselves into a niche product, basically: very distinctive. Nobody else can really copy it. So, they have strength in that. But it’s small scale, and it’s mum and dad business, and, you know, they might be employing an extra two or three people – some of them will be casual – but it’s still extra jobs, that don’t get counted, usually, in the big counts, when they do those sorts of things.
Karen Grega: It’s interesting when you think Royal Easter Show, the biggest event in Australia – 900,000 people over two weeks. It’s the old country meets city, and that whole thing. And there’s obviously such an interest. And, you know, the heritage and the agricultural side of things is so highlighted. But it’s like; are there no takeaways for people from the Royal Easter Show for tourism opportunities? Okay, they come here once a year to experience cows and sheep and, you know, see those sorts of things, but how much of that is then saying … taken away, to go for the rest of the year, you know, the other 50 weeks of the year? How is there opportunities doing stuff there?
Ian Knowd: There’s opportunity, because there’s a demand. The Farmgate Trail is exploiting that demand. But it’s only small scale, and it’s little stuff.
Sydney’s second airport
Dr Jim Taggart OAM: Here’s my last question to finish off, and it’s just simply a yes, no, with probably no more than a sentence. Does Western Sydney require another airport?
Michael Walls: Absolutely. Yes. For obvious reasons: tourism, development, jobs. Yes.
Ian Knowd: Absolutely. I mean, it needs to be serviced by another airport. Whether it’s located, I’m not going to go there.
Steve Phillips: One-hundred per cent. We’re an hour from the airport to the Blue Mountains.
Bill McNamara: Well, I don’t know whether Sydney needs another airport. I don’t know about Western Sydney, but it’s got to be somewhere, another one.
Stacey Fishwick: Yeah, definitely.
George Sahyoun: I’d have to go against the group; I’d say, no, upgrade what you’ve got, and get on with the business of doing business. The airport won’t be happening in our lifetime.
Karen Grega: Yeah, look, I just don’t think it’s that simplistic, because we need roads to get to it as well.
George Sahyoun: Yeah, I was just going to say that.
Karen Grega: The WestConnex plan is only now addressing, you know, the linking of the M4 with the M5. In real realistic terms, it’s just not going to happen in the short term.
Nathan Burbridge: I think there will be, at some point, regardless. Where it needs to go, I don’t know the answer, but we need to be giving it proper consideration now, and not waiting until the year 2050 before a decision is made.
Dr Jim Taggart OAM: well thankyou everyone for your insights. That concludes the October Round Table.
